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Darfur: Interviews with Al-Bashir and with Moreno Ocampo; Information

15 Sept 2009

Dear all,

Find below information related to the International Criminal Court's
investigation in Darfur, Sudan

This digest includes media coverage on outgoing UN Peacekeeping Chief's claims
that Sudan's Darfur is "no longer at war" (I); Interviews of Omar Al-Bashir and
Luis Moreno Ocampo (II); Information on Abu Garda's confirmation hearing at the
ICC (III); and related opinions (IV).

Please take note of the Coalition's policy on situations before the ICC (below),
which explicitly states that the CICC will not take a position on potential and
current situations before the Court or situations under analysis. The Coalition,
however, will continue to provide the most up-to-date information about the ICC.

CICC Secretariat


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I. GENERAL MARTIN LUTHER AGWAI: "DARFUR NO LONGER AT WAR"

1. "Sudan's Darfur No Longer at War: Peacekeeping Chief", Angola Press
Agency, 27 August 2009,
http://www.portalangop.co.ao/motix/en_us/noticias/africa/2009/7/35/Sudan-Darfur-
longer-war-Peacekeeping-chief,d2f99fb9-f31a-408a-94f3-2b8569d565fe.html

"Sudan's Darfur region is no longer in a state of war and only has one rebel
group capable of mounting limited military campaigns, the head of the area's
peacekeeping force said as he ended his tour of duty. The commander of the joint
U.N./African Union UNAMID force, Martin Luther Agwai, told reporters the
conflict had now descended into banditry and "very low intensity" engagements,
that could still carry on to blight the remote western region for years without
a peace deal..Agwai became the latest senior figure to appear to play down the
current level of violence in Darfur where the conflict has caught the world's
attention and mobilized activists who have accused Khartoum of genocide."

II. INTERVIEWS WITH AL-BASHIR AND MORENO OCAMPO

1. "Sudan's Bashir Addresses ICC Charges, Darfur's Woes", Public Broadcasting
Station (PBS), 13 August 2009,
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/africa/july-dec09/bashir_08-13.html

"SIMON MARKS: And he also rejects the International Criminal Court itself, which
was founded by international statute in 2002.

OMAR AL-BASHIR (through translator): The International Criminal Court is a
political court, not a court of justice.

SAM DEALEY: So you believe the ICC is an illegitimate organization?

OMAR AL-BASHIR (through translator): We think that the ICC is a tool to
terrorize countries that the West thinks are disobedient. The African position
today, by consensus, is not to cooperate with this court, and it has reached a
conclusion that this court is directed against the countries of the third world
and a tool of neocolonialism..."

2. "ICC Prosecutor Makes Case Against Sudan's President," PBS, 8 September 2009,
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/africa/july-dec09/icc_09-08.html

"JEFFREY BROWN: In the meantime, even as the court tries to move forward with
its case, the top U.N. military commander in Sudan declared, the Darfur region
is no longer in a state of war.

Two weeks ago, General Martin Luther Agwai said: "What you have is security
issues more now, banditry. But real war as such, I think we are over that."

Sudan holds national elections in April. If he stands, President Bashir will be
seeking a third decade in power.

And joining us now from the United Nations in New York is Luis Moreno-Ocampo,
the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court.

Well, thank you for joining us.

I want to walk through some of the statements made by President Bashir in that
interview. First, he essentially charges you with producing a political
indictment, not one that belongs in a court of justice. By way of responding,
help us understand how you built your case.

LUIS MORENO-OCAMPO: President Bashir has to come to court to make his defense.

I present my case in course. I present my evidence in front of the judges. And
the judges issue an arrest warrant against President Bashir for five crimes
against humanity and two war crimes. I appeal because they did not retain three
genocide charges. So, I hope the appeal chamber will accept my position and, in
addition, President Bashir will be charged with additional three charges of
genocide.

The case is very simple. There was a rebellion in Darfur, and President Bashir
decided that the tribes in the area -- and some of the rebels belonged to these
tribes -- are -- are also to have been removed and eliminated.

So, the plan was not just attack the combatants. It was attack the civilians.
And that was the concept. The minister of defense of President Bashir say to the
U.N. Commission of Inquiry as soon as there's one rebel in the city, the city
became a military target.

And that is what for two years President Bashir did. His army and militias that
he recruits surround little villages, attack the people, the civilians, attack
women and children, and kill, rape and torture, and force the displacement of
four million people.

JEFFREY BROWN: And he continued...

LUIS MORENO-OCAMPO: And that's...

JEFFREY BROWN: Oh, excuse me.

LUIS MORENO-OCAMPO: No...."

3. "Interview with Luis Moreno Ocampo," Interview with Al-Hayat, 13 September
2009, http://www.daralhayat.com/portalarticlendah/56391

"The Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court (ICC), Luis Moreno-Ocampo,
announced that the Arab League Committee will submit a report to the court in a
few weeks. For the time being, he is awaiting a report from the Palestinian
Government, as well as additional information, before he makes a decision, in
the course of the investigation regarding Israel and Gaza. A group of lawyers
from South Africa discovered new realities that provided Ocampo with new
jurisdictions in the case, he said. He added that "one of the legal advisers of
the Israeli Arm Forces is in fact South African, and this provided a different
jurisdiction to the court".

In his interview with Al-Hayat, the Prosecutor said that the lawsuit filed
against the Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir is ongoing, and it aims at
confirming the genocide charges. He also seemed convinced that the Sudanese
President, whom he called "the fugitive president", will "face justice". "I
think I will win these charges. In the meantime what I see is state parties are
fully supporting [me]", he noted.

The full text of the interview follows:

- Let me start out with the Gaza situation, where you have been waiting for an
input from the Arab League and at the last time when you spoke with the Arab
League there was some readiness as it seems to me for working together almost in
exchange of taking it easy on Darfur. Am I reading this wrongly? How did this
happen?

- - No, no. After the Palestinian Authorities came to my office for
jurisdiction, the Arab League decided to open a committee presided by very well
known and respected professor from South Africa, John Dougart, and they put a
report, and they are coming in a couple of weeks to the court to present the
details of the report. The Committee will come to the office to bring details of
the written report that we had. In addition to that, we seek communication among
other parties including a group of South African lawyers and they came with a
different issue. They found that one of the legal advisers of the Israeli Arm
Forces is in fact South African, and this provided a different jurisdiction to
the court. The court had jurisdiction on crime Committee by nationals from the
state parties.

- And that is going to allow you do what?

- - South African lawyers came to see me saying, "This is a different prosecutor
because this is not just Palestinian Authority that set jurisdiction." In
addition to that I have jurisdiction, and that is true when national party
commit a crime and that is the case in Balkans. So they presented to me a
different approach on the Gaza issue, not just basic jurisdiction, the
possibility of jurisdiction on the Palestinian Authority decisions.

[...]- Let me just move to Darfur. Do you feel sidelined by the Security
Council? After all the world sort of stood with President Bashir rather than
with you in the final analysis because there is no longer that enthusiasm at
least not felt hear in the Security Council, not by the American administration
behind you and supporting you vis-‡-vis president Bashir.

- - Look, my job is to collect evidence. I am still litigating before the court
to confirm the genocide charges. And I think I will win these charges. In the
meantime what I see is state parties are fully supporting [me]. Bashir was
trying to fly to South Africa or Uganda, they said, "You are invited but when
you come, you will be arrested." In the Arab South American Summit, President
Lula refused to sit close to Bashir. President Kirchner from Argentina left the
room when Bashir was talking. So I don't see what you say.

- But that was already months and months ago, and nothing has happened. The last
time I did an interview with you, you told me all these things as accomplishment
but then?

- - This was most recently. Uganda was in July. Uganda was most recent, and
South Africa just confirmed this. What I see that it is a process that takes
time, the priority for me is to stop the crimes and also what is interesting, in
the meantime the peace discussions are working so when people before they called
issued decisions people were saying, oh they call, we block the peace
negotiations. It is not true. The peace negotiations are in parallel. It is a
parallel track.

- Do you feel that the Obama administration has lived up to its word? Or once
they came to power they backed down?

- - It is their decision, it is their policy. I have nothing to say.

- "It is their policy. I have nothing to say" Is that what you said? I smell
disappointment, am I wrong?

- - What I said is clear. I cannot make comments on this.

- Do they undermine you? Were you counting on different kind of support? Coming
from the Obama administration given their position before they came to power?

- - I am a persecutor. I count on the evidence and the law. The rest for me is
none of my business. I am not looking for votes. I am not a politician. I am not
looking for votes so what you see... I cannot take into consideration those
factors to make my decisions

- Yes, but you need the Security Council members.

- - The Security council refers the cases to me. The Security Council in June
2008 fully supports me. T

- Right, but since then what happened? Do you have such a support? Do you feel
that you have enough support from the Security Council now?

- - African Union complains that I am not even listening when they are
requesting to delay the case. I don't feel any legal problems. No one is saying
my case is wrong. No one is saying that the evidence is wrong. I feel well
respected.

- Do you feel that some people have blamed you for being overly enthusiastic?
And they sort of accused you of steering troubles? Do you feel that this has led
you to taking it easy?

- - They could say whatever they want. I had a responsibility to investigate
crimes and I did it. The priorities now are the victims. The 2.5 million people
in the camps suffering the decision to hinder the humanitarian assistance to
them. That is a crime. And that is for me the total priority.

- But you also issued a warrant arrest against president Bashir of Sudan. And
that didn't happen, nobody is respecting that.

- - Everyone is respecting that. One year before I requested the warrant against
Bashir, I was saying publicly in the Security Council that I will investigate
the person who was protecting Harun, the person who was instructing Harun. So I
was very clear.

- But then, to your knowledge since then, has there been any movement? Is
anybody discussing anything? Harun is still free. You have warrant arrest
against several people including the president. Has anybody budged internally?
There were ideas that maybe on an internal level that would start a certain
process, has there been such a process or no?

- - I think that just the effort that the President Bashir is doing to travel to
some state Party and to show that he can travel to some countries and be
arrested, it is showing the impact of the court's decision...."

III. ABU GARDA CASE: CONFIRMATION HEARING TO OPEN ON 19 OCTOBER

The document below has been produced by the ICC. The Coalition for the ICC
distributes it as part of its mandate to inform member organizations and
individuals about ICC-related developments. The document does not reflect the
views of the CICC as a whole or its individual members.

1. "Abu Garda case: confirmation hearing will commence on 19 October 2009," ICC
Press release, ICC-CPI-20090914-MA44, 14 September 2009,
http://www.icc-cpi.int/Menus/Go?id=c0907e75-81a0-4739-8437-a36766c7ba32&lan=en-G
B

"Commencement of the confirmation of charges hearing, in the case The Prosecutor
v. Bahr Idriss Abu Garda, will take place on 19 October 2009 and not on 12
October, as initially scheduled.

On Friday 11 September 2009, Pre-Trial Chamber I of the International Criminal
Court issued a decision postponing the hearing, in order to allow the Prosecutor
to provide the suspect with a list of evidence and the statements of witnesses
in Arabic, the language which he fully understands and speaks."

IV. OP-EDS

1. "Darfur Crisis: The Waters of Denial are Too Shallow to Hide the
Nakedness of Either Special Envoy Gration or General Agwai, Let Alone Both of
Them", Words of Power Blog, 31 August 2009,
http://words-of-power.blogspot.com/2009/08/darfur-crisis-waters-of-denial-are-to
o.html

"Don't look for justice in this world; you will rarely glimpse it. Look for
justice in the depth of your own being, than find a way to bring it forth.
Unfortunately a Nigerian general named Martin Luther Agwai has chosen instead to
look into the shallows of denial, and has brought forth a self-serving lie.
Leaving his post as commander of the U.N./African Union "peacekeeping force" in
Darfur, after what was by informed accounts a woefully ineffectual tour of duty,
Agwai says the area is "no longer in a state of war." Tell me, are the women and
young girls of Darfur now free from the threat of repeated rape when they go out
and gather fire wood in the environs of the refugee camps? No. Indeed, are the
refugee camps emptying out as the people of Darfur return to their homes? No.
Have those whose homes were burned by the Janjaweed or bombed by the Sudanese
military been given stipends or materials to rebuild? Of course not. And perhaps
most important of all has Bashir, the INDICTED head of the Sudanese thugocracy,
been brought to the International Criminal Court to answer for crimes against
humanity which resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands?"

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